Conversation On Literature With Sara Jaksa

Sara: How Do You Decide Which Book Or Story To Read?

ZK: This is an excellent question! Two thoughts bubbled to the surface as soon as you posed it: one being I should write a post about this...and the second being I've never given it much thought. Which is strange considering how many books I read and how much time I spend reading.

There's not a whole lot of deliberation. I keep a to-read list yet I rarely consult it, it's only ~20 books long last I checked. I don't actively seek recommendations, either. I browse Goodreads and Book Riot occasionally, but never looking for anything.

When I'm in Australia, I'm more choosy, I suppose, because I have to put physical books on hold or order them in. Being a member of a library is one rare thing I miss when traveling or not living in a place for long periods. To browse the stacks, discovering something new, picking up holds...an endless delight.

When overseas, I'm fortunate enough to be a member of several libraries which offer eBooks and audiobooks through Libby. So I find myself just browsing the catalog for something vaguely interesting then reading that. No further thought required. I've found some wonderful reads through that method...but sometimes it isn't as enriching as the hunt that is research.

Who knows, maybe articulating my thoughts on the subject might at last force me to be more deliberate in my choices!

ZK: What's A Genre You Surprised Yourself By Learning To Love? What Put You Off Initially, And What Changed Your Mind?

Sara: I don't think any genre went from being put off it initially to later loving it. I am pretty omnivorous when it comes to reading, willing to try basically anything. Even if anybody reading my list of finished books probably wouldn't see that from all the mysteries that I am reading.

The genres that come closest to that are romance and horror.

For the later, I was having nightmares after watching horror movies. I remember being afraid of sleeping with the open windows for months after watching The Mist. Any time I attempted a horror-adjacent books in my pre- and teenage years, I fanned the flames of these fears. Put me off reading the horror for quite a while.

These days I still don't go searching for a horror books. I will read them if I see them mentioned and that sound interesting and I am in the mood for it. Because I realised that what made the horror movies horrifying was the visualisation of the horrors. I can't visualise pictures at all, which pulls the level of negative emotions when I am reading it way down.

One of the better short story that I have read last year was To Haunt and To Hold by Taliesin Neith, which I would classify as a horror. I enjoyed an interesting horror fanfiction today. I can and do enjoy the horror in small doses.

It only works because I still avoid the horror movies.

Romance is a bit different. It's not that I don't enjoy romance. It's that in the most romance books the motivation and the actions of the characters are ludicrous. Throws me out of it. Hard to enjoy reading, when one is angry at the book. Since the chance of not enjoying the random book in the genre was low, I at one point stopped reading romance for a while.

I am also a type of person that gets annoyed if the romance is getting showed in the random place for no good reason.

An example I am still a bit titled about. Janko Valjavec is my favourite Slovenian mystery writer. His most frequent main characters are father and son, the father being a retired criminal inspector/private detective. I liked his attitude of 'I would rather hang than get married' while living a happy life with his son's family, playing with his granddaughter, and getting kidnapped while helping find missing people. What they did with this character? They married him and gave him another son.

Sigh. I will continue reading him, because he is a fun mystery writer. Except the book where that character falls in love.

I have recently been asked by sa friend for a recommendation of 'romance written by a woman'. I was put on the spot, recommending something. After that I went perusing my reading list. I don't read that many predominately romance books. I still found at least a couple more books I would be willing to recommend.

In about two months since then, I have also devourer at least two romances. One was 天官赐福 / Heaven Official's Blessing by 墨香铜臭 / Mo Xiang Tong Xiu and the other The Scarlet Pimpernel by Emma Orczy. The first one was I have seen mentioned enough times, that I tried the series first and only then decided to read the books. I devoured all 8 books over two weekends - two weekends because after finishing four, I needed to order and wait for the other four to arrive. The other one was mentioned by somebody with impeccable taste in books and storytelling.

Both of them mix other genres with romance though. I usually find the romance mixed with another genre more up to my tastes. Regardless if that genre is politics, science fiction, historical mystery, crime or fantasy.

These days when I read romances, I usually read stories mentioned by somebody whose taste I trust or specifically recommended (or not realising in time it is romance). That way I am mostly managing to avoid these feelings that make me angry with the book and I can enjoy them.

Sara: What Do You Think About The Canon Of Books That Everybody Should Read? Is There Any Book Or Multiple Books That You Would Like Everybody To Have Read?

ZK: Controversial, I know, but while a canon for any genre/subject/time period is an excellent tool for deciding what to read next or starting point for engaging with that area of literature...to make it definitive or to attach 'should' to it defeats the usefulness. (If we're talking about reading for pleasure, of course. I have no say over academic pursuits!)

Reading has countless benefits for the mind and soul! I'm all for encouraging as many folks as possible to fall in love with the pursuit, and there's nothing like attaching any concept of 'must' to make something less enticing.

Read what brings you joy, whether that's 19th-century Russian novels or queer self-published webcomics!

It took a long time to take that advice to heart. The sooner you can, the sooner your reading life becomes more enjoyable.

That said, there are several books I adore I foster on as many folks as I can (if their interests align, of course!), so I'm going to do that here. For fiction, The Great Gatsby by F. Scott Fitzgerald. For scifi, the Railhead series by Philip Reeve. And in non-fiction, The Steal Like An Artist Trilogy by Austin Kleon and Four Thousand Weeks by Oliver Burkeman.

ZK: What Book/s Would You Consider Being A Part Of Your Soul, And Why?

Sara: That phrasing make me think you are asking which books are my soulmates. Which would probably not give you the answer you want - I consider soulmate trope to be a horror tropes.

Instead I have too many books that I consider to be a part of me. It goes from the books that influenced my life choices, even if I don't agree with it anymore and would never recommend it (like Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and Sharon Lechter). The books that for a while I was mentioning every single time it might be relevant until I integrated their message inside of me (like Give and Take by Adam Grant). The books that I was basing my ideas of the world on (like Sherlock Holmes by Author Conan Doyle). The books that consumed my thoughts and whose characters have spend time rent-free in my head (like 名探偵コナン / Detective Conan by 青山 剛昌 / Gosho Aoyama). The books that made me consider my choices and my morality (like Babel or The necessity of violence by Rebecca F. Kuang). The books that make me feel seen (like Common Bonds edited by Claudie Arseneault), warm my heart (like The Use of the Heart by S.H. Marr) or make me excited by each new part (like Jay Moriarty series by Kit Walker). The books that gave me support when I needed it (like Achtsam morden / Murder Mindfully by Karsten Dusse) or books that helped my figure out myself (憂国のモリアーティ / Moriarty the Patriot by 竹内良輔 / Ryosuke Takeuchi and 三好輝 / Hikaru Miyoshi). The books that make me realise that the future I want is possible (like first couple of Pavl Cirk mysteries by Janko Valjavec). Or books that made me rethink some aspect of my life and society (like Družabno življenje romana (Social life of a novel) by Ana Vogrinčič).

Many, many, many more books are part of me, in a smaller or larger extend. I probably don't even remember all of them, even as some of them continue to influence me and build me as the person I am.

Why is specific to each book. If I had to bring one common point, it would be timing. The right story or book for the right moment. I have read books where I know that if I had read them sooner at the right moment, they would be transformational. I have had some where I have knew about them for years, and only partake in them when it was the right moment - even when I didn't realise that this is what I was doing.

It is also the reason why I will support any kind of book (or even other media) even if I don't agree with their ideas, and why recommendations are really hard to do.

Sara: What Is Your Opinion On Different Genres? On The Idea Of Genres Itself?

ZK: I attended an online session for the Emerging Writers Festival recently (hosted in Melbourne, Australia each year) where a panel of three writers discussed writing in multiple genres. And that was fascinating!

Something I wrote down while listening was "When choosing a form or subject to write in, think: how can it serve the work? How can it bring it to life?"

I'd never even considered that as a question worth asking. To think genre or form is merely a tool for enhancing one's writing...incredible! And it makes sense. We act as though things in life are prescriptive, and deterministic, when we made up the category in the first place. What 'science fiction' and 'fantasy' are wasn't pre-ordained. And they shift over time.

If you think about it, categorization is a form of certainty. If a book is advertised as being in one genre, people 'know' what to expect, and that's helpful. It assists in deciding whether it's worth paying attention to. And I commend tools like that in this glorious yet overwhelming age of so much choice in media.

I guess the intense focus on genre has its downsides, too though. It's to the detriment of literary fiction, and perhaps people aren't as willing to try something that's not in their preferred domain. I experience this too, even though I read widely. There are some genres I will not touch, no matter the intriguing description or accolades. And that's just taste.

Like many human-created things in life, as long as you recognize genre for what it is, a tool to assist with cognitive processing, and nothing more than that...it's useful. An excellent assistant, yet not something to take orders from.

ZK: Do You Read/Write Poetry? How Does It Differ From 'Prose'? What Could Each Form Learn From The Other?

Sara: These days I rarely read or write poetry. I had a phase years ago, when I was writing mostly poetry. I also read it more, even when it never reached the level of the prose. It was also a time that I was not that satisfied with myself and it showed in my very melancholic emotional state.

As I have became more comfortable in my skin and more satisfied with my life - aka when I stopped carrying about what it should be, the urge to write poetry and the emotional feeling that I got from reading poetry simply weren't helpful anymore.

I remember poetry being different than prose at the time. It is not anymore. At least not for me. I do read prose and drama in the same way than I read poetry these days.

I did participate in the empirical phenomenological research about reading poetry. We had to read six different poem, both silently and out loud and then talk about what we were experiencing when reading it. The comment after all these interviews that I got was, that my way of reading poetry is very different from other participants ways of reading poetry.

Because of the confidentiality of the research, I never found out how different. I sometimes wonder if it is something in the vein of aphantasia that I might possibly have - I always have problems explaining how I am experiencing something, because even when I see something, which I rarely do, it is by far not the way people imagine I see it.

Then again, this is by far not the first time somebody told me my experiencing of the world is not how normal people experience it. Including but not limited to other empirical phenomenological research.

Another point that I noticed in that research is, that based on the small sample of poetry they picked, I had negative reaction to most of it. It was probably the only recent time I took the time to think about poetry, and because I don't read it that much, that I am not sure how wide that finding it. I do like some of it at least.

Sara: How Do You Visualise, Verbalise, Feel And/Or Otherwise Experience The Process Of Reading?

ZK: I experience reading through rhythm and cadence. Literary sense-making, if you will. I don't visualize anything, really. Instead, I feel the shape of sentences, the weight of words, the musicality of language. It's almost tactile.

Emotional resonance comes through word choice more than imagery. I read aloud in my head along with reading the text, and I guess that's how I catch what's not working: if it doesn't sound right, it can't be.

I think this is why I gravitate toward writers who prioritize voice, style, cadence and turns of phrase over plot mechanics. I want prose that sings, that moves, that feels alive.

When I write, I'm aiming for the same: language with presence and weight.

ZK: When You Say You Read Prose And Drama The Same Way You Read Poetry, Are You Reading Everything With The Same Attention To Language And Form? Has Poetry Become More Narrative For You?

Sara: You said that in your reading you prioritise voice, style, cadence and turns of phrase over plot mechanics. I am the reverse in a way. When it comes to what I enjoy, I usually go with the emotional resonance, then ideas explored and plot, only then is the literal style and the use of words. I can enjoy the beautiful phrase, it's by far not enough to sustain me for more than a page or two, I need something else as well.

It's on the level, that sometimes I sometimes need to think and guess which language did I read the specific book in. One of the reasons why I keep track of that in my read books list. And probably the reason why the use of the language is one of my weak points as the writer.

That means that for me poetry had always been narrative. Not always in a story sense, the Japanese haiku are a good example of the poetry that is like an impressionist image. For me it had always been about the idea it expresses and the story it tells. Poetry was simply a more suited form to express it than something else.

I know some people say that poetry is the words used and the effect it has. If that was true, then poetry would be untranslatable, yet people still translate it all the time. That means that it needs to have something else in then beside that. That something else is what I get from reading poetry.

Sara: What Is Your Opinion On The Diversity In The Books? What Do You Consider Good Or Bad Representation?

ZK: I've always been of the belief, that if I go to university, I should never pursue media studies. I would become a menace. Except you could argue there's no need for the degree, as I've already taught myself the subject.

What comes from that is a profound belief in the stories we tell to ourselves, to our friends, and in our culture are more powerful than we know. And, of course, an exhaustive list of opinions about almost everything I've ever engaged with.

An affliction I haven't worked out how to turn into a blessing is I take everything seriously.

And because I've internalized the idea I'm forever not enough and too much...I've long believed I should never express negative opinions online. Because my family is subjected to those rants enough. Why should the rest of the world be too?

Another reason is I don't wish to upset. Always afraid of the irrepressible invisible audience. I would do well to rid myself of this unhelpful storyline. Because, really, who cares enough to seek out my writing and listen? Only folks that matter.

So, here I go, expressing those terrifying thoughts: traditional publishing would do well to take a chance on folks who aren't anglo-saxon, representation is only 'bad' if it's stereotypical or ill-considered, and reliability is overrated.

Something I've noticed is sometimes, when a neurotypical writer creates a neurodivergent character, or a cis/hetero a queer one, I can tell. Only, however, if their different brain wiring or queerness effects certain parts of their existence.

I'd argue that's a mistake. Being neurodivergent and queer effects every aspect of my life. Take those two traits away, and I wouldn't be myself anymore. Perhaps, then 'good representation', is just acknowledging the nuance. The wholeness.

ZK: How Do You Think About The Quandary Of 'Relatability' In A Protagonist? Essential? Irrelevant?

Sara: When I was watching movies at the movie festival this month, I have also been thinking about why I find some movies interesting. One of the aspects I considered was also relatability of the characters inside. The movies that gripped me weren't always with relatable characters. I don't understand why Lamia went as far as she did to make the cake. I can't relate to Lee's plan of killing people to get the job or Perla's self-destruction wish, yet all of these are movies that I greatly enjoyed.

The same is true for book reading. I can read the books of characters to which I don't relate at all. Maybe I can not relate to the protagonist of Steward Foster's Bubble or the nurse that helped him. I can still root form him and hope he will experience some of the outside world. I can not relate to the sheer stupidity and ideology of the protagonist in Tanja Mlakar's Begunka (Refugee) or to the decisions of the characters in Edvard Kocbek's Strah in pogum (Fear and courage). I didn't relate to any character in the Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita. All the books I finished. The enjoyed the middle one enough to recommend it.

On the other hand, if I am not emotional invested into something in the story, I will probably drop it. I was recommended the Sarah J. Maas' A Court of Thorns and Roses and I stopped reading it after 70 pages, because I didn't care about the main character or the secrets of that faerie or the fate of the world. Another person recommended me Joe Abercrombie's The First Law series and once they moved to the point of view of the third potential protagonist without making me care about the first two or anything else, I dropped it as well. I dropped the Walter M. Miller's A Canticle for Leibowitz for similar reason, because they somehow managed to make me care for the first monk that was drawing the image, but didn't manage to make me interested in the fate of the world, which made me drop the book around the first time skip.

For me to finish the book and enjoy it, it's much more important that I have some sort of emotional connection to something in the story than how relatable I find the characters. Besides the books that I put down after a couple of pages because the feel doesn't fit me at the time, I mostly put down books because I don't care about anything that is happening in the book.

That is even taking into account that I don't need the RPG style comparison with the protagonist for me to relate to them. The gender, sexual orientation, age, profession or nationality don't contribute to the relatability for me. I do need to see parts of myself in the character in order to be relatable to me. I figured out that I extremely relate to the characters that reflect my personal and emotional problems in that moment, even if the story does not address them.

I guess I relate to your upper point that aspects of us reflect in our entire personality and I guess I am searching for these reflections of aspects more than aspects.

Relatability is only one tool to make me care. Would I enjoy the Common Bonds edited by Claudie Arseneault as much if I was not an aromantic? It is by far not the only one and authors can use any of the other tools in the toolbox.

Sara: What Is Your Take On The Censure, Both On The Level Of Marking Published Books Unsuitable For Some Audience And On The Level Of What Is Even Published In The First Place? What Role Do You Think Authors, Publishers, Booksellers And Readers Play In This?

ZK: Good question! I've never much thought of censorship in publishing, but there's always been at least some. Then, I suppose, it depends on how you define it. Is curation a form of it? The selection process, too?

I'll admit to occupying a paradox: I'm an indie author, yet not as much of a supporter of other folks in their endeavors as I'd like. It's rare I read an indie-published book! I suppose some of the vestiges of old moralizing still have their hooks in me.

You could even say reviews of less than three stars act as censures. For, when most folks see a book with even one or two of these, they're far less inclined to read the book. Then I suppose there's the opposite, which I do: refusing to speak publicly about books one hasn't enjoyed, lest any negative feelings get aroused.

ZK: How Does The Format A Book Is Presented In Affect How You Receive It, If At All? Does The Font Choice, Writing Style, And Whether It's In Audio Or On Paper Influence How You Think About A Work?

Sara: It influences how I approach the book and my experience of the book. Which does have an indirect effect on the how I receive it.

When it comes to the format of the book, the oversimplified rule is that the easier it is to read the book, the more likely I am going to have a positive impression of it. If the book only exists as the audiobook, it had to be probably mote than 10x better than the average physical book for me to even finish it.

The same is true for the format of the book. I read the books also during waiting times, and it would seem that this would be worse for pocket sized books because I keep pausing it. In reality that is not true, as the reverse can mean at least continuing to read the book, and not leaving it on the shelf for months. (I will finish that German book about Nordic mythology eventually.)

Plus, the pocket sized books, like the Japanese light novels or Slovenian very short introduction series, are light and the hands don't start hurting even if I read them lying down for hours.

Which is why I almost never read the ebooks with the DRM. The only device that I can read them on is the computer, which means seating at the desk in the same way as when I work. If I get the PDF or epub, then at least I can use a tablet, which allows me to read in a more comfy position. Because reading on the computer has the same effect for me than reading some of the monographs, that are designed in a way as to want to cram the most on the page. It makes me more tired and more indifferent to what I am reading then I would be otherwise.

The paper still beats the electronic every time, even if the difference is a lot smaller than between the audio and text.

I had known for a while that the language I am reading it can effect it, as long as I am not fluent. I know that I am not remembering anything from the first couple of books that I read in the language. It effects it for a long time, because the lack of vocabulary and the speed can mean that I need to books to move quicker to enjoy them. The level of what the book need to deliver for me to enjoy it is higher.

It was recently, that I noticed that the language can also effect my enjoyment of the same story inside the same language. I order library books through our system and a couple of times I have by accident ordered the simplified versions of the books in English. These books were unreadable to me! Which surprised me, because I do read the simplified versions in the languages that I am not yet fluent and it doesn't bother me there. I also read at least one series for the early teenagers and I enjoy it.

Which means that there is a minimal amount of complexity that I require from the book. I guess in the case of my non-fluent languages I get it from the sense-making I need to do with the lacking information because of lack of knowledge about language. In the others it had to come from somewhere else - either from the language or from the content of the book.

Sara: Give Me Your Thoughts About Reading In The Different Languages And Translations. Because I Know You Are Australian I Am Also Going To Ask You To Talk About The Uses Of Different English Versions In Books And About The Practice Of Adapting The Books From One English To A Different English.

ZK: I'll admit to having a skewed perspective on this. As I've traveled to several places, spent far too much time online, and mostly read novels written by folks from the United States and the UK, the way I speak and write English is a mixture! Often I'll use colloquialisms from all three in one sentence.

Still, paying attention to Australian authors and books set in Australia is super important to me, especially in Young Adult works! There just aren't enough books like that for teenagers.

I say that, but do I practice what I insist on? No! Something I'd love to put more effort into is reading books in translation, authors from continents other than North America, and books in Spanish.

What always irks me is this idea books need to be 'changed' to suit an audience, as in local sayings swapped out for ones folks from the States would understand and use. A little learning never hurts!

It's the culture flattening rampant in other areas of life just in a different disguise.

Sure, books in a simplified version of a language, or presented in a different font, to make books more accessible, please do! The more, the better! The problem arises when we assume reading has to be comfortable. Where entertainment means no learning whatsoever.

Reading is a gift, an opportunity, a reckoning, an empathy-giver, a life-expander. Why change that?